OB3 Aftershock & the Solar Comeback: Service, VPPs, and Real Careers Beyond the Roof (w/ Kate Collardson

Emmitt sits down with Kate Collardson, a 20-year PV pro from Denver, to unpack life after OB3: layoffs, the “overqualified” trap, and the massive opportunity in orphaned residential systems. They dig into why U.S. residential solar still carries heavy soft costs (dealer fees, sales stacks), how VPPs beat peaker plants on speed, and where the next wave of jobs lives—project management, design, interconnection, tech support, and O&M. Plus: why parking-lot carports solve heat islands and energy at the same time, and straight talk for women entering solar.

Highlights

• OB3/IRA whiplash and hiring reality
• Orphaned-system O&M as a starter business
• VPPs: fast response, real grid value
• Carport PV > heat islands
• Soft-cost bloat: how to trim the stack
• Breaking into solar today (training paths & local shops)
• Women in solar: confidence, competence, boundaries

Links & CTAs

• Watch the episode on YouTube: @wattsuppod
• Consumer education & webinars: solarenergyforconsumers.com
• Fractional training & O&M consulting: sepowerconsulting.com
• Follow Emmitt on LinkedIn: Emmitt Muckles

Episode Tags / SEO Keywords
Solar, Photovoltaics, Residential Solar, Virtual Power Plant, Energy Storage, O&M, Orphaned Systems, Women in Solar, Soft Costs, Dealer Fees, Interconnection, Project Management, Design, Carport Solar, Heat Island, Grid Services

Suggested Buzzsprout Chapter Marks
00:00 Intro & why this conversation now
03:29 OB3 impacts & layoffs
10:57 Orphaned systems = service opportunity
15:04 Careers beyond the roof (PM, design, interconnection)
17:40 VPPs & fast grid response
21:26 Carports, cities, and heat islands
26:17 Why U.S. $/W is high
32:45 The 2026 reset
36:00 Breaking into solar today
37:59 Advice for women entering PV
40:30 Sign-off & next episode teaser

Our Sponsor for this Episode is S.E. Power Consulting
S. E. Power Consulting offers Fractional Training Leadership—meaning you get expert-level training support when you need it, without the cost of a full-time hire.
Whether you’re scaling up or just getting organized, we help you train smarter, not harder.
Visit SEPowerConsulting.com to learn more.
S.E. Power Consulting—Fractional training. Full-time results.

Transcript

Hey everybody, welcome to the What's Up Solar Podcast. I'm doing something a little bit different here. Well, I
0:15
brought in a really good friend of mine. Now, let me go through this.
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If you like the podcast or if you like the videos, go to YouTube
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way, it really helps us out and it helps me to get content to you.
1:00
On with the show. I have my good friend Kate Collison. We've we've been traveling in each other's circles since
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NABSEP of like 2014 or something like that.
1:11
and we've we've experienced some of the same issues in the industry
1:18
uh in various times and sometimes together which is kind of
1:24
synchronous. But one big thing that changed this year
1:30
as of my birthday, July 4th, was we had the introduction to the one big
1:37
beautiful bill. The one big beautiful bill changed how we thought about
1:43
residential solar and solar in general in the United States. I wanted to bring Kate on because and I hope to make this
1:51
a thing like get Kate's opinion. Love it. Or what's up with Kate? That's a good
1:59
one. What's up with Kate? Love it. Because you know we have diverging. We
2:05
don't have diverging opinions, but we see it from two different perspectives. So, somebody might be seeing it from the
2:11
front of the glass, somebody might be seeing it from the back of the glass, but it's this clear liquid, and we're
2:16
still seeing the same liquid. So, how you doing, Kate? I'm doing all right. Doing all right.
2:22
How about you? I'm doing better than I expected.
2:27
I am doing way better than I expected. Um, and that's how the universe works
2:33
because everybody knows me as a trainer and that's what I'm going to do is I am going to impart knowledge upon the
2:40
masses. But you've been in solar for over a decade and
2:46
20 years. 20 years. You've been in longer than me. What were you like 10 when you started?
2:55
No. Um, and you've been in Denver. Denver's been a place where solar was really
3:00
thriving and promoted for, you know, before some of the other parts of the country outside of California. Um,
3:08
and like with incentives like Build Back Better and the Inflation Reduction Act
3:15
that helped reshape solar for the last couple of years and everybody was betting on it.
3:22
Now that's been taken away. What's your immediate thoughts on the
3:29
impact of that? Well, um I have I've been personally
3:37
impacted and that I was laid off and that was a direct result of the one big
3:47
beautiful bill or OB3 I've heard it referred to. I like it. Um, so I found
3:57
myself with my my company um that I was working for uh the funding partner went
4:05
under and that meant that they we had to go through a
4:10
riff and unfortunately I was caught up in that riff and here I am today looking to find a new um
4:19
a new job and it is it's difficult I think that the uh the industry what
4:26
what I'm seeing personally is while folks are hiring um a lot of the hiring
4:34
is happening at the um the at levels of
4:41
like more more entry level positions. Yeah. and um and there aren't a lot of uh
4:50
opportunities that I'm finding at this moment around for folks with uh that
4:56
that would really benefit from the amount of of experience I have um in the
5:02
industry. I I had that in another industry. I remember this interview I kept going on
5:09
several interviews. This is long time ago before I was in solar
5:15
and interviewers would say to me, you know, you have too much experience for this job.
5:22
I wasn't I was like, huh? What? I don't get it. What they were and
5:29
one guy actually said it. He was like, you have too much experience and I'm going to tell you why I'm afraid of
5:36
hiring you. I'm like, what's that? He's like, you'll be bored. Yeah.
5:41
In my mind, I'm thinking, uh, I just tighten my belt up one more notch. I
5:47
don't care, right? I I, you know, I I just want to be able
5:54
to live my life, you know. I That's why we have hobbies,
6:01
yes. You know, but that's a very American thing, you know. I'm going to tell you about when I kept seeing I was in Europe
6:08
recently and I kept seeing this train called the OBB.
6:13
I kept thinking about the beautiful bill every time I saw the train. But, you
6:18
know, I I do understand what you're saying in the fact that
6:25
I decided to to take all of this accumulated knowledge that I have um
6:32
gathered throughout this this solar industry and I said I asked this
6:38
question to the universe and said, "How can I be the most impactful?"
6:43
because there are so many things that I know and
6:50
if I do it for one entity there's a lot of information that is
6:56
going to waste. So, I set out on the journey of being
7:02
able to work for people
7:07
on a mutual term versus, hey, here's the term, come work for us.
7:12
Right. Right. And it it's been a challenge. But here's the thing I think about
7:19
like people who have been in the industry, I'd say five years because if you're in solar for 5 years, you're a
7:25
OG. That makes me a dinosaur.
7:30
That makes me like Methusela. But I think it's going to it's going
7:36
because we got to a level of corporate stability where everything was very corporate and you start to see the manp
7:44
or the the what I call the American shop start to dwindle.
7:49
And I think we have to go back to that because with that corporate came a lot of expense. There's a lot of overhead to
7:56
run a corporation with over a thousand employees.
8:02
I mean, just you got to make a certain level of money just to keep the doors open.
8:11
But it's a little bit different when uh Kate and EMTT start a solar company and
8:17
we have two crews of people and we have this warehouse that's on Kate's family
8:24
land. Sure. That's very different than, hey, I
8:30
have a brick and mortar in five states and I have 10 crews running out of those
8:36
and I have inventory I have to manage and I have safety I have to manage. You
8:41
know, that lends itself because I keep thinking about to mention quality and that's one of the
8:48
big things about getting so big is that what can happen is quality can decrease.
8:54
And so you you do all of these installs, but they aren't as great. They they aren't they won't last as long. They
9:01
aren't as watertight. The the connections aren't as as strong or whatever it is.
9:06
Yeah. Because it's a numbers game. They're just getting the numbers up and you do sacrifice some things. I I know
9:13
some companies were just they were installation companies, but they did more service after the installation to
9:20
get it going, you know, around PTO time
9:25
for it to be viable. And then I I've heard these stories. I don't have empirical proof that there are
9:32
installations that have never been commissioned like not turned on. like they're
9:39
on the roof sitting there not turned on. Those things wouldn't hap. Well, they
9:45
could happen with a manp if they didn't have their finances correct, but these weren't mpath.
9:52
These were corporate largecale entities that were doing that.
9:57
And I'm not saying that they are bad. I'm not saying that because they did so much good for the industry. I'm just
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saying these are some of the things that we run into when we deal with situations
10:09
like this. Uh that being just to to
10:14
talk off of that real quick that I see as an opportunity in our industry when
10:21
few things feel really bleak especially for someone with as much uh residential
10:28
experience as I have. I I have spent most of my career doing almost
10:33
exclusively residential work. And as these residential companies go
10:40
under um there those systems like you're said there are some up on roofs that all
10:45
they need is to be turned on. There are others that uh are you know were working
10:51
but may have failed and and there's no one out there. There are a few entities
10:57
out there that are helping those those system owners uh keep the systems working
11:04
that you you are correct and I actually said this during a recent class and I say within the last six months I had
11:12
some people who are getting into still getting into indust into into the industry and
11:19
they said I need to get a job. They like I'm saying you want to get hired. They're like yeah. I'm like why don't
11:24
you start where you're at? They were like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "There are PV systems around here who pe
11:30
people don't know what they do. They don't even know if they're turned on. They don't even know if they're working.
11:36
There's leaves that are underneath them. There's critters that are munching on stuff. Just go service people's
11:42
equipment. Just They're like, "How do I do that?" I'm like, "It could be as simple as a Facebook ad. It could be You
11:48
don't even have to do that. Find an area with a lot of solar. Put a thing up on the telephone pole." I'm like, go back
11:56
to grassroots. I'm like, if you get one call from a customer,
12:01
it's highly probable they know somebody else was solar because these people kind
12:06
of pull together and they're going to say, "Hey, I had um Jeffrey over here.
12:12
He came over and our bill was a little weird and he found this little thing."
12:17
Like, find an electrician friend. Just use the American way. This is this is
12:24
what I call bootstrap. I come from Detroit. All we do is hustle. That's right.
12:29
And and we figure it out. But with that, you know what? It's not a young person's
12:39
um skill set. And what I mean by that, physically installing solar
12:44
is a young person's job. And when I say young person, I mean you have to be really fit to install solar on a roof.
12:52
Residential particularly commercial maybe not so much but residential
12:58
you have to climb up ladders that may be 30 40 feet carrying uh 60 lb sail that
13:07
can catch the wind be harnessed in carrying tools then you have to work with your ankles at a pitch for hours at
13:17
a time and have situational awareness. Having said that, most people once they
13:22
get over like 35, and there's a lot of people in this industry,
13:27
are poised to do jobs that are not related to that. Some of the jobs that are available,
13:36
what would you say they are? And I'm asking you this because of where you came from.
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You know, there's administrative stuff, there's other things, there's troubleshooting. Absolutely. There's design work that
13:50
needs to be done. Uh there's there is uh the the the troubleshooting when
13:55
something goes wrong. Uh we we need that tech support. Uh there are um there are
14:02
jobs just kind of working between being the the liaison between the the
14:09
installing company and the uh the AHJ or the utility just
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uh just to say hey be be the one who's doing all of that interconnection
14:21
application but also the permission to install at the location. Um there
14:28
project management is a big one, program management. Uh
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there are lots of entities out there who are you know just need somebody to to shepherd the projects through all the
14:40
stages uh to ensure that they that that nothing gets missed um that that
14:46
everything is uh is complete when you get down to the the commissioning of the
14:51
system. and and these are important roles that um that you know you don't have to be up on the roof for.
14:58
Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this. We are coming it's it feels like we're
15:04
coming to the end of residential solar, but that's not true. And I'm going to tell you why. I live in Indiana. When I
15:11
moved here, it was 9.7 cents a kilowatt hour.
15:16
It is 16 and a half cents a kilowatt hour heading toward possibly 19 cents a
15:23
kilowatt hour where I live. And I've I say this over
15:28
and over again. I I went to Target yesterday. Actually, I went to the Target parking lot. I didn't go in
15:34
Target. I saw so many Teslas, a few Rivians, a bunch of these electric, they look like
15:42
motorcycles, but they're electric bikes with pedals on them. All those have to
15:47
be charged. And you've moved from a very low cost per kilowatt hour to a almost a
15:56
doubling of the cost per kilowatt hour. But yet and still people are a opposed
16:02
or abstinent to obtaining solar on their home in the Midwest. I don't get it. It
16:08
Do you think it's because of education or the negative has been promoted far
16:14
more than the positive? We've had a lot of bad press uh over the
16:20
the last few years. I think that's a that's that's a given. uh and and folks
16:27
believe that. Uh but I think it's it's also um what what I believe we'll see is
16:34
that as those electricity prices continue to climb and the cost of solar
16:41
uh declines stay the same stay stays the same or even increases a tiny bit, uh it
16:48
it will make more and more sense um for for a homeowner to install solar. And
16:54
when we talk about resilience and uh thinking of of extreme weather events uh
17:01
things that cause the power to go out that then solar plus storage starts to
17:08
make a lot more sense. And when you know, you look at people in California
17:14
with where they have the the rolling blackouts and and the folks with the solar and the storage sure are happy at
17:22
the end of the day. They're Netflixing and chilling and they're having party. If folks are
17:28
coming over, suddenly they're the most popular folks in the neighborhood cuz they lights on.
17:33
It's funny because I have to do a talk in Texas about virtual power plants. Texas is literally its own electrical
17:40
grid system within the state. And during my research, I realized if
17:47
every other home in the United States had battery backup on it, there are a
17:54
lot of gas and coal plants that would not be required.
18:00
Literally uh with virtual power plants is and for those of you who don't know
18:05
if you have a battery and solar on your home that battery can be can communicate
18:11
with the utility and they can sequester energy for it and pay you for it that
18:16
energy that they use instead of firing up a plant. Here's the other thing that I realized they react
18:24
so much faster than firing up a plant. Like so much faster. And I'm just like,
18:30
how come this is not at the forefront of our energy
18:35
crisis? Because we recently had a a town hall where I was at and people were
18:42
adamant about data center not being here. Everybody relies on chat GPT and AI, but
18:50
they don't want the engine that runs it in their backyard, you know. But it's
18:55
going to happen. Going to happen. It's going to happen with with that. Have you seen an
19:02
increase in your energy rates in Denver? Uh, a little bit. I'm uh we have a co-op
19:08
and and a little bit, but it's not not as dramatic as what you're talking about here.
19:13
Yeah. But one interesting thing on the on the data center front, I was I was at
19:19
a summit a couple of weeks ago and we were discussing um the negative press
19:25
that we've gotten, how how solar really is actually under attack in a way we
19:31
haven't seen. Oh yeah. In in my career. And uh and the fact is
19:38
that solar is the most rapidly dispatchable
19:43
source of energy out there right now. We can we can deploy solar very quickly.
19:50
Yeah. In a way that we can't with other forms of electricity. If you if you look at and this is I wish I wish I had these
19:58
numbers correct but I'm going to I'm going to go for it and and say if you take if you take the needs of the
20:05
projected needs of data centers alone over the next five years. So five years
20:11
what we're going to need in data centers you cut that into onethird
20:17
and we need to something like quadruple the amount of electricity that we
20:24
produce right now just to just to service onethird of what's projected to be needed for data
20:32
centers over the next five years. What other form of electricity can can be
20:38
dispatched that quickly? How long does it take to build a nuclear
20:44
plant? How long does it take to build a gas? I I mean it it takes a while. So what
20:49
you could probably if you got your salt together, you could put a a megawatt
20:55
site up in about six, eight months. And that's and I I think and that's
21:02
throwing in like we'll get to it or it's cold outside or
21:08
blah blah blah blah blah versus the alternatives which are gas. You got to
21:13
get foundation. You got to get you got to get a bunch of things. But here's the
21:19
big thing and I was thinking about this as you were speaking. I was recently in Paris and I had this epiphany all of a
21:26
sudden as I'm traveling through Europe. All the major cities are on big rivers.
21:33
And I'm like, why is that? That's because they could generate power from the water.
21:40
I mean, that's I I would argue that's a secondary reason. Uh that that probably
21:47
trade came first. I mean, yeah, trade, but you know, but
21:52
you could trade, but you can't Okay, some grain comes down the river. What are you gonna do with it? Oh, we're
21:59
gonna use the river. It's a good point to do this. So, it's it's a tandem
22:04
thing. We're in that modern age now where this is the new river. Solar is the new
22:11
river. So, there are places, especially in the
22:16
major cities, I know this coming from Detroit. Detroit was decimated as far as
22:22
real estate. put solar on those. I won't even go that
22:28
far. Don't even put solar there. Every parking lot of every strip mall,
22:36
every Target, I mean, every parking lot in America, if
22:41
you just put solar on that, you got gigawatts of solar that provide shade in
22:48
the summertime. They provide cover so you can walk safely without slipping so much for
22:54
getting wet in the winter time. They provide infrastructure and power for those properties that are there.
23:02
Hey, and you're not and you're not using any land. No, zero land need. You don't you don't have
23:08
to, you know, if people are saying, I don't want to use the farmland for for solar. We can that's a whole separate
23:14
podcast we can talk about. But yeah, let's we'll get to that. Aggravates. Yeah. But it it like it's
23:21
all right there. All of this space is right there. Let's use it. And and
23:27
instead of uh what's happening now with all of those parking lots is we're we're creating these heat islands and and
23:35
contributing to the warming of the planet. Well, let's cover them with solar and and and produce some
23:41
electricity. You say they're heat. Is it because they're mostly black top and they absorb the heat?
23:46
They're the Yeah, exactly. the thermal mass. So throughout the day they absorb all the heat and then at night they they
23:53
they contain it and and they it slowly dissipates. But this is the these you
24:00
know the roads the the parking lots all of this thermal mass around all of our cities are that is absolutely uh
24:08
contributing to the warming. And you can gosh
24:14
I was driving in uh I want to say Tucson which is obviously it's hot in Tucson
24:20
very but you you leave the city and and
24:26
it the temperature drops by like 5° on on your your car thermometer and that's
24:31
that has to do with the thermal mass that you're using. I never thought about it that way,
24:37
but I always realized when I went when I ventured into Chicago, it was it just
24:42
felt hot in the summertime like and then in the winter time it feels cooler.
24:48
Interesting. Yeah, because you you're shaded. You're in the you got these like especially downtown
24:53
Chicago, it's just it's just cold. Oh, yeah. But what can All right, whip
25:02
out your my magic wand. Bing. What would you do? What what would be the solution
25:07
to revamp this? Uh, let me throw something in there. America or the America, United States,
25:15
we pay far more cost per watt than other
25:21
countries do. For instance, uh my brother-in-law in Austria,
25:27
he got an 11KW system with a battery and it cost him €24,000.
25:36
I see your eyebrows. That's with a battery. Oh my gosh.
25:41
Yes. Wow. 24,000. I I explained to him uh this
25:47
would be easily 50 to 80K. and he was like, "Nah, we Yeah. He was
25:54
like, "No, that's not happening here." That's one of the biggest things. And I was saying to a friend of mine who works
26:00
at Sunrow, it's like our cost per watt is too much. He was like, "It's mostly
26:09
I know I'm diverging from my question." That's um he said, "It's mostly
26:17
labor." I'm like, "I don't think so." I'm like, you got the door knockers who are making like 1,500 to two grand.
26:25
Yep. And then you got dealer fees. That's what I told him about. I'm like,
26:31
dealer fees can be like five grand. I'm like, you're almost at like 10 grand
26:36
before something's been put down on the roof. Somebody has to pay for that.
26:42
Yes. I was like, so that $3 a watt that you're saying it costs to install this for residential. I'm like, it could if
26:50
you think about it naturally, if you if you got if you took what you needed, if
26:57
everybody took just what they needed, it could be $1.75
27:03
a lot. We might be able to get as low as if we really were diligent about it, we could
27:10
get it down to a $150. And I was like, that's not including the interest you pay on it.
27:17
Mhm. I forgot my original question. Well, as your magic wand question, what what
27:22
Yeah. What could you do? What can we do as an industry? I think that if I had a magic wand, I would I
27:29
would stop the attacks. I would I I would
27:34
get the government back behind us in in a way that and and I'm not I'm not here
27:41
to to tout uh the the incentives that we've had the the tax credits. Listen, I
27:48
I started installing before we had the 30% tax credit. It was capped at $2,000
27:53
when I started installing and and we were selling at $9 a watt.
27:58
Oh. and and the the way that the incentives were structured, the the the
28:04
idea was that as the cost of solar equipment and and labor and all that, as as the cost comes down, uh the
28:11
incentives also decrease. And so at the end, you're you're sitting at a a
28:18
and at that you pay out of pocket. um at at and I want to I want to clarify that
28:25
the $9 a watt we were selling at $3.50
28:31
came back from the utility. Oh, and so it it kind of worked its way out,
28:36
but but even today we're a lot less than we were with that $3.50 and the $2,000
28:44
from the government. Yeah. And so so I think that we have grown as
28:50
an industry before incentives. We and and we can as an industry do okay
28:57
without them now. We're I I like to say we're we're better than oil and gas. We don't need those incentives like they
29:02
do. But you which I don't understand because if you've ever seen this movie with
29:08
Billy Bob Thornton, Land Man. Oh, I've watched that show. He says he
29:14
says some truths in there. He does. He's like, "You cannot get rid of petroleum.
29:20
Everything you touch is related to petroleum. From your plastic bag
29:27
to your car door to your spoon
29:32
is touched by petroleum, all well and good." then they should be making enough
29:37
money off of that because they have so many derivative derivative products that they shouldn't need those incentives
29:45
unlike this technology that's newer on the block which is solar wind so forth
29:52
so on you would think that that would be the promotion because here's the one
29:58
thing that I've seen is the fallout of jobs
30:05
That was an avenue for if you didn't want to go to college, if you weren't
30:10
the college type, if you didn't keep good notes
30:18
or had the study skills, whatever. Some people, a lot of people are not built for college, but they're built to work.
30:25
They're built to have a mentorship where somebody says, "Hey, I'm going to show you how to do this, and then you're going to do it, and then I'm going to
30:32
teach you along the way. That's what solar was. Solar offered jobs and and I'm going to rattle them
30:39
off as many as I can. Installer is the first thing that you see. But to support
30:45
the installer who puts the modules on the roof, you need an electrician.
30:51
Then you need a parts person so that they can count all the conduit, the modules, the racking, the wos that go,
31:00
the nuts and bolts, all those things. So you have a warehouse person. Then you have a controller or purchaser for said
31:09
stuff, making sure you have the right stuff. Then you have trainers like myself and like you who have to train
31:17
you how to install because newer products are coming in. We haven't even gotten to the manufacturers yet. Then
31:23
you have the permitting people, the scheduling people, the operations in
31:29
general, the people who uh this people administrative assistants, I was going
31:34
to say secretary, but that's just not right anymore. But all these jobs have been kind of
31:42
taken off of the table or at least diminished to a heavy degree. And that's
31:48
just mildly. Think about you're you're in Denver.
31:54
How many solar schools are there or learning centers? Oh, not even anymore. I don't I don't
32:01
know. But there were there were Yes, we had a a Ecote Tech
32:06
and um and then of course Solar Energy International is is in Colorado, but
32:12
it's not in the on the front range. Yeah. Workforce community
32:18
colleges here and there. Yeah. workforce development programs that are providing things for uh
32:25
sustainability for nonprofit centers. So, there are some places that are not only food
32:32
deserts, but they're energy deserts as well. All this stuff is being kind of ripped
32:39
like swept off the table little by little. But I think it's going to turn around and I'm going to tell you why.
32:45
Please do. In 2026, I think in the spring everyone's going to have an
32:50
epiphany like we were too greedy.
32:56
We need to figure out a way to make this happen
33:02
with a nice profit margin with a decent profit margin that helps the cause.
33:09
Because if you think about it that way, if you sold solar differently and not through as a as a
33:17
get as much as you can and make financial instruments that make sense
33:22
for everyone for the long term, done deal. Cuz the dealer fees have to
33:29
come way down. Instead of paying door knockers by the
33:34
deal, you pay them an hourly wage. Mhm. Call it done.
33:40
Yes. I know door knockers, you're going to be pissed at me, but my son's a doorner. Oh, is he?
33:45
And yeah, he's living the life. He's like, I love this. I was like, you're
33:50
18, you would. But I I I think it's we're going to have
33:57
this epiphany because that's a lot of infrastructure to take
34:02
off to just sweep it. And the other thing I'm ranting now is most people did
34:10
not have a tax liability. And people are like, what does that have
34:16
to do if you don't have a tax liability? For instance, let's say me and my household of like four, we don't have a
34:22
tax liability. We have kids. pay right off yada yada yada yada. So quite often we get a few bucks back from the
34:28
government. A liability is when you owe the government. When you get solar, they
34:34
don't issue you a check uh if you own the system. So if I have a loan, I get solar. If I have a
34:41
liability, uh I can take a third of that
34:46
I I use for installing the solar off my tax liability. I don't. What I believe
34:53
happened with the PPAs is that the companies own that which companies
34:58
typically have a liability. So they're just racking up these
35:04
where they could get something. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong.
35:11
That is I mean that that's that's the vehicle right there. That's that's why it makes sense for the the uh the big
35:18
companies, the financers, is because they're um they're racking up those credits and and taking advantage of
35:25
that. That's a lot. I was just thinking about Chicago, how many installs they were doing a day off of a PPA. They were
35:34
doing like 40 a day and these systems were costing 40 grand. So a third, what
35:41
was it? 30% of 40 grand or was it 26% of 40 grand?
35:47
Oh, right. Yep. Still, it's a sizable chunk of change at the end of the year
35:53
that you can go, hey, we wrote all this off. You know, our profits are shareholders are happy as all. Get out.
36:00
Anyh who, so what would you say to somebody who's thinking about solar right now? Like at
36:07
the beginning of the year, they were like they're a young person. They were like, I want to do solar. I want to get into this renewable. What would you say
36:14
to them? Well, I I think that the first thing that I say to folks who are interested in joining the industry is is get some
36:21
training. Uh there there are great opportunities out there. Solar Energy
36:26
International I mentioned before is one, but there are great options on on things like heatring
36:33
uh and and MA MA uh that the EMTT has some great
36:39
training and and I do think that it's it's
36:44
important to come in these days with some some kind of background. And then I
36:50
I recommend looking at at the local companies. Um the the mom and pop shops
36:57
as you have called them um are are are good places to to find a an entrylevel
37:06
role that can get you some great experience. And and that's that's where I started. I was I was at a small
37:13
company. I I was up on the roof for years, but then I I learned how to design and then I I started I learned
37:21
CAD and I started drawing the the permit docks and and then I was running permits
37:26
and and so it was one of those uh one of those situations where you you learn a
37:32
little bit and then you take that knowledge and you you grow a little bit and you learn some more and and you continue that cycle of of learning and
37:40
growing. And that's that's my recommendation. start with a
37:46
little bit of training and then um and then find find that that entrylevel
37:52
position at a at a local shop. Okay. I can only ask you this question.
37:59
What would you say to a woman who wants to get into solar?
38:05
I would say all of the things I just said, but I would also say that um you
38:13
have to believe in yourself. and and just know that uh even though um
38:23
other folks on the job site uh might have a problem with you being there, they might not want to talk to you,
38:30
they'd rather talk to the male colleagues. Um, you it's important to to to
38:36
know your own worth. Uh, and and to keep putting yourself out there and you will
38:42
uh you'll you'll gain the experience and you'll uh you'll feel better and better
38:48
about yourself and and feel more comfortable pushing against that that dude who's like, I I don't want to talk
38:55
to you. I'd rather talk to your your colleague over there cuz uh he looks a
39:01
little more him than you do. And you know, I hate to say that, but I I've seen that. I've
39:06
Oh, so have I. And I mean, in recent years, I've seen that. And it creates a really
39:11
poor atmosphere cuz I know some really capable people,
39:17
male and female, who will just run ragged through anybody. Um, with that,
39:26
all right, I'm I'm gonna end this conversation because I don't want to get too long in the tooth, but I'm gonna
39:32
pose for another session of what's up with Kate
39:37
because you can probably provide some insight.
39:43
In the year March of 2020, we experienced a shutdown. Our world changed. Then
39:52
back in 2020, which was 5 years ago, there were people who were
39:58
12, 13, 14, 15 through 19 who are now adults and entering the job market.
40:07
I have children and I've seen it firsthand. You have children, you've
40:12
seen it firsthand. So on the next one, let's talk about how the how COVID and
40:18
the shutdown impacted the workforce. All right, that's an interesting topic. I'll look forward to that.
40:24
All right, so every Thank you Kate for being on What's Up with Kate.
40:30
That was awesome. Thank you. So people remember um like, share, subscribe. Please like, share,
40:38
subscribe. I'm going to say it one more time. Like, share, subscribe. Now we are talking about the solar PV industry.
40:45
When I was in Europe, they were like, "We don't call it solar. We call it PV." Photovoltaic. I was like, "Yeah, rightfully so." But Americans, we put
40:52
slang on everything. Uh just remember one thing. What you don't know may cost you money.
41:02
Slapping these things on your roof, that's what they call it. Hey, we're slapping modules today. When you have
41:09
them in your life, it's going to guarantee you something down the road, especially if it's all paid for. The sun
41:16
will never send you a bill. Remember that. Till next time. Love y'all. Peace.